Audacify Podcast

Moving through resistance – at the level of Organisations – with Otti Vogt

In this episode I am speaking with Otti Vogt. According to his LinkedIN handle he is passionate about Igniting the Human Spark to Build Better Businesses & Sustainable Futures.

Until March 2021, Otti was the COO and Chief Transformation Officer for ING’s Challenger & Growth business line. ING is a Top 6 Eurozone Bank by market cap and the C&G line serves 27m retail and wholesale customers in 12 countries. ING is a fairly well-known case study of agile transformation, some of my clients even did a real-life excursion to the Netherlands learn from their both successful and failed experiments.

Prior to that he was the MD for Global Vertical Industries at British Telecom, BT, where he spent over a decade of his international career. Otti speaks five languages!

What really makes Otti special is the combination of his deep intellectual understanding and hands-on experience with what many people call New Work: agile working methods, Teal Organisations, Holacracy, Sociocacy and other forms of self-organisation.

The content is very dense and we cover a lot of ground with many references and name dropping, which underpins Otti’s architecture of thinking and practicing. You’ll find these in the show notes. 

We talk about: 
– the innovator’s dilemma 
– the corporate immune system
– the role of leadership in change
– why and how resistance often starts at the top
– why in this decade a sense and response approach is much needed

Otti gives some practical advice to our podcast personas, Michael and Michaela, on how to move through resistance within the organisations they are leading.

You will hopefully also feel inspired to follow my Call to Action (CTA) – or homework if you like – which comes right after the conversation with Charlotte at the end of this episode (you can check the chapter notes in your app for precise time – if you need a re-listen to take notes).


Simon Weston on eco-leadership 

Joseph Campbell: The hero’s journey 

Ryan Holiday: The obstacle is the way

Dave Snowden: Cynefin Framework and Culture = derivative of a business that you can’t change directly 

John King: Tribal Leadership 

Amy Edmondson on psychological safety in self-organisation

John Kotter: Don’t declare victory too early 

 Alex Osterwalder on Ambidextrous Organisations